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How To Write Podcast Ads That Sell w/ Stew Redwine


What makes a perfect host-read ad? We talked to Stew Redwine of Oxford Road to find out.

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Bryan: Prince, focus and respecting creative. That's what we're talking about today on Sounds Profitable with me, bryan Barletta.

This episode is brought to you by Chartable. Attribution, analytics and awesomeness. Go to chartable.com for more details. I know that you're listening to Sounds Profitable because podcast ad tech is important to you. But it's important to me that you are kept up to date on the latest news from the entire podcast industry to help with that.

Here's what happened last week. No matter when you're listening from James Cridland at Podnews.

A few weeks back, I reached out to Oxford Road to have them build the perfect ad for Sounds Profitable. The question which I posed to Stew Redwine and his team that led to the article linked below was "if podcasters can sell underwear, why do they struggle to sell themselves?" Stew not only wrote up an amazing host read ad for us, but he also wrote an article detailing exactly what went into making it.

I spoke to him about how we can better learn to focus our advertising efforts and how we'll have more success if we give creative the time it needs to thrive.

(transitions into interview) I'm really pumped about this conversation today, because the more time I spend in this space, the more I'm realizing that right now, where we are in podcast advertising, is that the actual creative

is the thing that receives the least amount of attention. And it's probably the

most important.

Stew: Yeah, I think that is often the case, particularly in this space that the creative doesn't, I was just looking through here and these little, I keep these little, a note cards of all these quotes and things to inspire me.

And this is from Bill Bernbach. Who said creativity will become the last unfair advantage we're legally allowed to take over our competitors. And so that the fact that creative is, I think under exploited, particularly in this space are not focused upon is bears bears focusing upon it because it can be this kind of leave behind, you know, as a creative director at an audio agency.

There is a piece of it, but I mean, you see the same thing across kind of all creative. It's like, well, anybody can do that. Right? Like anybody can pick out colors, anybody can edit something on their laptop. And it's true. I mean, all the tools have been democratized. They've been democratized for all time though, when it comes to writing or performing, you know, the Alphabet's been around a good long time, but it doesn't make everybody a world-class right.

But it does seem particularly in the audio space that the copy points can kind of be this thing. That's just like, well, you know, just basically have anybody write it, you know, just, yeah, we kinda got that. We got our team. We'll, we'll go after it. And it's not given the time care and attention that like anything, anything could benefit from more time, care and attention to refine it and make it better and make it punch harder.

To make, I think in particularly in the realm of worlds to make it clear, brief, and potent, like never use two words when one will do make every word count. How hard are you working on making your copy? The best that it can be, so that you're equipping the hosts, particularly for host read stuff, but we can talk about produced as well.

Cause you're seeing more and more of that in the podcast space, but for host read, copy, how do you hand them? The absolutely best tuned instrument that you can so that they can play it. They can play it like prints. They can shred, but that thing's gotta be tuned up. It's gotta be hooked up to all the right equipment.

It's gotta be the best it can be so they can do the part that only they can. Yeah. And

Bryan: Soif we think

about the whole process, right? So buying a campaign, let's say you're using attribution. When I was at Barometric now, Claritas, we needed it a minimum of two weeks before a campaign went live to make sure the tracking pixels were live to get the right data and to make sure everything's technically sound, you sometimes need money.

To agree to the terms and to figure out and buy the available inventory that's sold out in advance, but there were definitely times at megaphone where it felt like it was like awesome, cool campaigns going live in three days. So let's get that creative going. And it's like, holy shit, really, we're going to give, we're going to give.

That has the biggest impact. The thing that the listeners are going to interact with that's how little time we're going to have a lot to it. We don't give it weeks. We don't do AB testing for it. We focus on what are the points, the quickest way to action. Get it live. And then we just cut. Cut. Cut. What doesn't work instead of focusing on how do you make an ad better?

How do you give them the right tools? Your prince comment was so perfect. I got a two page ad read from her. You sent it over to me and it was, it wasn't the read. It was simply all of the talking points. The first part was a page full of stuff. I didn't care about even a little bit reading through it.

Like having tried the product myself. Actually, I looked at that and I was like, I don't care about any of this. The second one part was a competing list of conflicting data points. Right. Uh, things that they wanted you to say, but there was no way to say all of them. There was no path to walk through them.

There was no guidance. It was, here are a bunch of darts. Here's the dartboard way over there. We've made the bull's eyes multiple and all over the place. Good luck. It was probably some of the hardest work I had to do to sift through that and take a guess at what would be good. And when I worked with my friend on it, the.

What I gave him, not good, not he gave me great feedback. He said it just doesn't pan out. And so you're right. Tuning that guitar, her host, right? Tuning that instrument to the specific audience. There's a reason player pianos were popular, right? There's a reason why we got boom boxes that play music. And we're not still in the world of simply having live music everywhere we go.

Sometimes you got to know your audience and sometimes you get to provide them the right tools. And sometimes that's. Is a CD player to

hit play on. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I think that like, look, the, the host, like you just said it so well, and I've heard it from other hosts. You're a person, a busy, busy person with a lot of things going on in your life.

Two pages of anything, even for me anymore, I'm like, oh my gosh, I don't want to have, I have decision fatigue, right? Like poor little old me, but I think a lot of us feel that way. So it's like, what do you want from me? And how do you sh sharply point it as narrowly as possible? And that's why. You know, we do have, and what we, what we talked about in the article, why we do have a very methodical approach to help us get us to good, faster so that when the tyranny of the urgent happens, cause it happens because it's reality, banned stuff has to ship, right?

Like, yes, this is what happens. And you have three days. It's like, okay, let's invent an instrument. Should it have string? Should it have keys? Should it play this? Should it play? It's like, oh no, we know it has six strings. And you know, it's shaped like this. It has a knack, blah, blah, blah, blah. We need to do all these things.

Let's put everything in the correct boxes so that, you know, I remember, so I've been at Oxford road since, before the beginning and we used to score times. Yes. We used to send home pages, pages, and pages. And we were doing them a grave disservice, you know, it's a lot of work. Some of them, I got to say some, some folks are able to go through that or they have a producer that goes through that.

But by and large, it's just too much. Yeah. It's like in the movie, what is the Amadeus where he goes, there's too many notes, there's too many notes. It's like the king of Austria or something wrote responding to his music. It's like, it's just, it's just too much. So now, like we haven't really sharpened.

We're we're sending them like, essentially what's a radio script, which is like 180 where, well, you know, I mean, Bryan, we did those together. You, you been to the mountain. Yeah. It's 180 words so that they can do their thing and they can make it sing and they can elaborate in ad lib as they need. Sometimes it's like, oh my goodness.

It's like, when we have to cut down to like a 30 or a 15, it's like, oh, for me, it's like so refreshing. Like, because it's like, oh, I just get to whittle this down to just the most important, most, most impactful pieces. And I'm like, oh, that's an ad dad. Isn't and then they do their thing. It's not words and words and words and words and words and words and words.

That just doesn't seem to work. And then it's also like I've got hundreds of advertisers and thousands of ads that we've thrown at the wall and hundreds of millions of dollars invested to go. Yeah. I'm telling you I'd stick to like 180 words. In fact, I'd probably stick to like 150 that's a minute long read, but y'all were talking like insiders, you know, it's kind of like, well, what's that like for a minute long read, I'd keep it short.

And then. You know, stick to a formula. We happen to have one. That's great, but there's been formulas that have been around for a long time. Attention, interest, desire, action. You know, you name it, whatever.

That's the big thing that I really want to emphasize there that like you're seeing that it's been around for a long time.

The people in the podcast industry. So many of them on the microphone either came from radio, awesome content creation, all that, or are new to it and are on the microphone side, the business side. So many people here are brand new your articles. So originally I reached out to Stewspecifically to write, to get help at writing an article about how to do this.

And I said, Hey, could you put together like an ad? And then could you give me some words around it? And you wrote this amazing article that cited all these books and resources that I had never heard of. How you handle it at Oxford road is unique and you guys are killing it over there. Very impressed with everything you're doing.

But what you basically said is we take all the public information here and we condense it and we do it our specific way, but you should read this and you should do this. So instead of like how to win friends and influence people, you're sharing with an audience of people who don't know these books exist.

Don't know the sources. If you're interested in creative, develop. Advertising at all Stewlisted books on there that I had never come across in my entire career. I think I'm pretty solid on advertising, but like I have a pile of stuff now to read or listen through that I'm super pumped about. And I'll also shoot sometimes.

And I think we got to have it more is basically the Beakman's world of advertising. He does these killer videos where he

Stew: puts on. Costumes and cleans

Bryan: these points in really fun ways. And that's the truth of it. We have so many

Stew: people invite my friends to help me

Bryan: when there's so many people in this space that are brand new, that have never experienced any of it that are just like your job is.

Advertising now and there weren't trained and they didn't go to school for it. And they were just excited to work in this industry. And this is the closest they could get. And people like you and the content that you're putting out here and the direction you're giving them is how these people become like you or like me in the future.

And that's really important. So I really got to say, thank you for completely buying it. To everything I'm doing and really doing your own version of it, which is

Stew: great. Well, thank you. Yeah, so many people have been open-handed with me and I've never known how to do anything I've done. And I think that. I mean, I think it's continually the case, but even more now, more than ever how connected we are, you can find all of this stuff, but sometimes it can be overwhelming.

And so like where to look and what should I, you know, what are those resources? And thank you for saying all that stuff. It is, you know, Those are all the things that I've looked at and continue to look at. I was thinking like, oh, what's some other stuff that would be helpful. Moise writing notes. Uh, so quantum marketing here, quantum marketing is a new one, um, that I'm getting into alchemy, which I'm a little late to the game.

But as Rory Sutherland is very good strategy is your words, which is awesome. And it's like, This one is very cool by this guy, Mark Pollard. And you had to get it. I don't know one of those like crowdfunding campaigns, but the guy actually did it. And it's like, the pages are like really thick and I don't know.

It's just cool. It's got all these pictures in it and stuff. And like, this is another great resource and you can see I'm starting to mark it up and you know, it's lots of people are trying to solve these problems. And this one's kind of a good example because like he's made this very different and special.

And the hosts, that's what we want them to do with the air checks. And I've got like five different ones that I had that I'd found recently that I've listened to. But I mean, anyway, the big, the big theme is they're adding their personality and their style to it. So they're making it special. They're bringing the, the spice to it.

Is this other guy, Louis grin the air. He's got a podcast called everyone. Hates mark. Awesome. Awesome. And he makes them very, very punchy and very, to the point and very helpful. Uh, but he talks about, you know, this spice is one of the things that you have to add. That's what we want the host to do. That's like the thing everybody's after, and it's weird because you.

You me, me, me, me, me, when I started writing podcast copy, I'm like, oh, I'm going to add the spice. Like, oh, I like this show. I get what that person's like. So I'm going to write like Bryan Barletta. And it's like, no, it's better for me. And some of the greats, like the greats and radio. And I mean the grades by the size of their audience and their ability to cause people to take action.

They add their own signature style. They're the Salesforce for every advertiser and the best way again, it's kind of like this, it's a recurring theme, but that's okay, man. It's the basics is to give them it's actually restraint. It's practicing minimalism and restraints. To give them the least amount possible in the punchiest way possible so that they can do their thing and they can add their signature style to it.

Like that's what you're after in this space. And that's like the X factor in produced stuff, or, you know, in television creative that doesn't have a personality in it that you've got to come by to do a different one. It's like, how do I create that empathy and human connection, but man, in the venue that we're in, in the space that we're in, we're the hosts, you know, one host.

I remember talking to them personally and they, they were going, and this is a huge host they're going like it doesn't get any more intimate. I am inside their box. They're in their ear. You're welcoming them in. And so the human connections there, so it's like, okay, you're making your copy. Hey, follow our formula, follow somebody's formula.

Others have gone before you a highly recommended. It's all I've done. And I'm just approved, improving them product and hold yourself back. Let them bring the magic to it. I super

Bryan: agree. We had Danny sellers from Hudson. And gumball come right recently, there was an article that audio boom put out and it was just like the intrinsic added value of podcast advertising.

And they were like, we buy 62nd ads and we get two to three minute ad reads from people. And Danny showed me what Jake and Amir he's just like, that's not a win, right? Like a three and a half minute, four minute ad read for helix mattress. Was awful. Right. They just lose it. Even if you give them bullet points, they're just gone.

There's even with two people, even with history, you lose the call to action. You lose the interest, you're into another story. Could it work for weaving it into something? Yeah. But then you leave it and maybe you come back to it later, but it clear ad spot it's about being concise. It's about the added value is the publisher that the podcasts are being able to kind of seep into.

Right. To be more visible, to know their audience, to have a chance to help sell and keep this advertiser happy. That's the added value. Trusting the people that you're buying from not simply being like, ah, well, I paid for 30 seconds and I got a 30 minute episode. We are nobody listened to it or nobody converted.

Of course they didn't. And just, just running the clock-out isn't value.

Stew: Yeah. I mean, I think that's a great point. There's if you're only looking at that, that isn't the true value. I think again, it's like if you've got some kind of rubric or metric to look at the things which we do, you know, but there's, there's lots of way to do it.

You go well, You know, what is most important? And in my view, there's no more powerful words in the lexicon of advertising. Then I use this and you should too. That's the ultimate substantiation. That is the ultimate statement. That is what we, you know, path's ethos and logos. This goes all the way back to Aristotle.

It's like, you need to connect emotionally. No question. Cause you connect with the heart. The mind will follow people, post rationalize all the time, right? That's why when you buy a really nice car, you get the big thick manual. They're not, they don't bring that big, thick manual out. Go, let me take you through this and talk to you about the antilock brake system.

You know, it's like sit down and it feel it want to take for a ride. You know, it's like, you're powerful, you're strong. You're like this. And then you, you can rationalize it after the fact. So connect with the heart, give people the reason. The point here was on, um, the substantiation piece of it. So hosts, ethos, and logos.

They have those in the logos. That's the heart and the reason great. The ethos is the credibility. And what struck me about that when I was thinking about it a few years ago was like that those are three things that are startled mentioned like an equal value. And ethos is like, well, why should I believe this person?

Do I care about this person? I think, well, the people we care about most are friends and family. So when a friend or a family member tells me, at least for me, it's like, I got this thing you should too. Like, that's probably the highest weighted ad I ever got. Right. It's from another person that I care a whole lot about.

So podcast basis of multi-level marketing. Right, right, right, right. Yeah. Exactly. All those things work. Right. Like

Bryan: your mom has it. And then she goes to see her aunts and that's that, that stuff works. It's the core of all this. And it's so interesting that you're like shining the light on it again.

Stew: Yeah.

Well, I mean, I think it's easy to lose sight of because that's the thing that, well, and it's easy to. Not like you're saying, it's like we got this three, three minute ad read and it was like really cool. Uh, great. Did they say there's this awesome read? I have four, um, Headspace and it's unregistered with fattiness Russell and he talks about his struggle with mental health.

He gets really real about medication psychiatry, like the real stuff that, you know, if you're peddling, Headspace is the real is the real ish that people don't talk about. Like really getting low, really getting personal. He goes there and then he says he used Headspace and it's, you can feel it it's real.

And he, and he tells you it's I wrote down cause he does testimonial and endorsement. Cause they're two different things. So he says, I use it and he says, you should too. And you're like, okay, great. And he goes, let me see, let me see how long his is. Okay. So it's a minute 43. So it's a little longer, but he, yeah, he, he, in that length kind of your point, it's not just about running the clock.

He's doing. A more impactful ad because he's given you that I use it and you should too, a half years ago, I was in pretty serious psychological trouble. My anxiety and insomnia were essentially out of control and I didn't know what to do. Because at that point, I had spent 10 years doing psychoanalytic psychotherapy, spending tens of thousands of dollars on it.

I had taken multiple medications, multiple SSRS. And at that point, none of this was doing me any good friends of mine had been telling me about meditating. And some of them had even told me about this app called Headspace, but I resisted for a long time. Thankfully, finally, I saw it. I saw an ad for a free one month trial to Headspace, which is what I'm offering you now.

And I used it and I'll never forget the first session. After 10 minutes of meditating with Headspace, it felt as if my very body chemistry had changed for the better, it was a remarkable transformation. And I have used the techniques. Taught to me by Headspace every single day, since then. And there has been nothing better for my mental.

It's been better than all the therapy and all the drugs combined. And I'm offering this to you now. I guarantee if you go to headspace.com/renegade and use the free one month trial, that's offered to you right now. You going to find similar transformations in your life. Again, I guarantee it go to headspace.com/renegade for your free one month trial to the meditation app.

That really changed my life. Thank you so much. I

Bryan: think what's really funny about it is I feel like sometimes the podcasters. Track of why that's important, right? I'm a big crooked media fan. But at this point, what I know about crooked media and they're like Casper mattresses is that like, they keep it in their guests room and their mother-in-law doesn't complain when she sleeps over.

And to me, that's not endorsement that music got something and chose not to throw it out right. When they like may there's, there's a point where. It's you're making fun of the product, right? You're making fun of that process and that endorsement is lost. You can have fun with it, but like I got in my twenties, I consumed so much Tim Ferris, whether that's embarrassing or not now I'll take my shots for it.

Stew: It's what made you, who you are today, Bryan?

Bryan: I was like, I bought me on, I, you know, I vividly remember him talking about Mizzen and main shirts and how, when he travels, he uses them because they don't wrinkle in his bag and he doesn't have to have that complex, like have like a, like a dry cleaning bag when he travels on a plane.

And to me in my twenties, traveling a lot that stood out. I never bought it, but. Deal think about it, right? Because it was an endorsement from someone at that point who had my attention about a problem we share. Yeah. And how they solved it. Right? Like the second I I'm listening to a podcast cause I can relate to, or you're incredibly entertaining and I can't relate to you.

Right? Like there's either, either I find something about you that's endearing and close or you're so entertaining that you can be an alien. And then if you're an alien, that's neat. Then I want to support you. And if you're close to me, I, I assume we have similar problems. So every time you give a true.

Heartfelt read, not the same thing over and over again, not hearing the same read from two different hosts in, in like a day apart where they read the same script. It's you gotta be real. That example of Headspace you gave that's killer. That's the type of thing that'll make me sign up. That's why I have tried the Headspace before.

Right. Hearing a personal connection, because I think that's part of it. We, we seek authority. We seek people that we can learn from and we can trust into it's. Why there's cultures around diet and fitness and finance and all of these things, because we want to buy into a guru. I get kid two on the way, and we're back to the same list of people whose classes and programs we bought with kid one.

And, and like I'm bought in, do they have an upgraded version? Awesome. Am I going to blindly follow it until it completely fails me? Yes. Because I want to buy into something. I want to feel like part of something and I want to trust an expert. So I just, I feel like the mad men, days of advertising, like for, for all the awfulness of that show, it was super entertaining, but I definitely understand

Stew: the problems with it.

Bryan: A lot of the stuff that you're talking about. Has been lost in the last 10 to 20 years, it feels like because everybody's obsessed with what's the click-through what's what's the cost per acquisition. Oh, we can just drop that show because it's, non-performing, we're not looking at the creative. We're not looking at the talent.

We're not building things that stand alone. And yet we still hail things like the super bowl. Which has ads so entertaining that we watch outside of the super bowl as such like a big event. So I really commend you for everything that you're doing here. It sounded like you had a few ads that you wanted to share.

Stew: Yeah, I do. I have five. I just, there were some, some recent ones that I'd pulled up.

Bryan: Let's hear him.

Stew: All right, guys, let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show, which is Quip Quip, the good habits company. Listen, these are the guys they're going to take care of your mom. And everything to keep your mouth healthy.

I love this company. I use their toothbrush. My wife uses it as well. We use their flaws. They have the best dispenser for the flaws. They have the travel stuff, so you can take it on the go. It's all great. It's really smart. It's all, all their stuff is made with really good ingredients and they just added their mouthwash, which really is that's what completes the deal.

That's that's what you need. You need a good toothbrush. You need a good floss routine and then you need some mouthwash. So you feel great. Let me tell you. This mouthwash is incredible. I've been using it regularly. It's the first time I take it. I was like, I don't know if I like this mouthwash taste and then my mouth felt cleaner than it's ever felt in my life afterward.

And I just kept using it. And now I love the taste and it's just like my favorite mouthwash that I've ever used. So I highly recommend people check it out. Mouthwash. Of course, the perfect finishing touch to a complete oral care routine. Pair it with the Quip electric toothbrush for adults and for kids and they're refillable flossers.

They also send everything to you on a schedule. So you just make sure you you've just got that whole part of your life covered. Quip is the company go to get quip.com/problem five right now? And you can get $5 off a mouthwash starter kit. That's $5 off a mouthwash starter kit. It includes a refillable dispenser, a 90 day dose supply of quips four times concentrated formula at get quip.com/problem five.

By the way, the refillable dispenser is really sleek and cool looking as well. So you're going to love that. Get quip.com G E T Q U I p.com/problem five Quip. The good

Bryan: habits company.

Stew: Okay, so that one's got a great example. The quick equip example that we just listened to from part of the problem where he talks about the mouthwash and he does a couple things.

So one, this is also another critical component because we were kind of talking to Mike mainly about like, um, I use this and you should too, but he also does a really important piece of persuasion, which is positioning that people don't always do. So he says cleaner than my mouth has ever felt. I always have to anchor if I want to be.

Persuasive as possible when I want to be persuasive, anchoring it against something else, anchoring the concept against something else. So he's anchoring it against, this is the cleanest my mouth has ever felt. And his skepticism.

Bryan: The skepticism stuck out immediately.

Stew: Yeah. There you go. So that's a fantastic one.

So that, and that's from July, right? Cause I didn't, you know, one way as creative director, director of creativity, a lot of times the examples are like from this is something I did four years ago. Or even like last year, I might not like this was last week, baby. This is, this is 70 and I didn't do it. He did it part of the problem.

Did it. Here's another one bad on paper today's episode is also sponsored by Zoc doc and complete truth. I have been using Zoc doc a lot lately. I used it last month to find a new gynecologist. I use it this month because my primary care physician left the network that she was in and now it doesn't take my insurance anymore.

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Really sucks. So I happened to land on Zoc doc and figured, Hey, might as well. I'm really getting nowhere fast with these personal recommendations. So I plugged in my insurance, my zip code, and then I wanted a female provider and in three seconds flat, I had a page of options in front of me, and I can make an appointment right online without waiting on hold with another rep.

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And this is another part of persuasion. So this is kind of good because it's also pulling out some different aspects of what's important in persuasion. Was this specificity of 47 reviews, right? Not 46, not 48, 47. And that it was her personal story about, again, this is, you know, this is, uh, this is an important decision finding a new gynecologist.

Like where do you go? She started with her friends and you have the relative value of she got what? Three, three recommendations. Yeah. And was Zoc doc. She had a whole bunch, and not only that, it was recommendations with a bunch of reviews

Bryan: and that's, so it stood out the most to me, right. Is that, uh, the, the friend review, she said she went and asked her friends.

Right. Which is the trust, the expertise. Right. And the friend reviews fell short because her scenario, while not uncommon, Like it's specific, right? It's relatable. The insurance sucks. Everybody knows that. Even if you have a corporate insurance, you're still going to find those things. You can't recommend a doctor because you don't know the insurance they take.

If you're already working with a doctor, you don't need to know that they take other insurance and you really don't need to know if they take more than your insurance has even weirder when you have the same insurance as anyone, you know, that seems to be even more on cost. So the fact that her brand referrals failed.

That's that's what really kicked this off for me, it was like, oh, she tried the best option she put in the most effort, then this option, which is way easier, which seems like it would therefore not be as valuable, ended up being more valuable because it filled in the spots that her friends will never need to know to solve her problem.

Stew: Right. Yes. And, and again, this is like, That it's all it is. It's Sal and part-time is position. Positioning positioning, positioning forever and ever, and ever like, I, I, because what you'll find, if you listen to a lot of other ads is that is what will be missing. And so when you're talking to hosts and when we're, when we're talking to hosts, it that's one of the areas we really dig in.

And again, going back to the formula and the tight concise. Section, uh, you know, only having so many words to work with them on is then you can dig in to go as deep as possible in each one of those sections. So here is another one. Here. I've got two more for you guys. You've heard me talk about nutraphyl vitamins a lot.

I was just reminiscing today. Actually. I vividly remember about halfway through quarantine. I chopped my hair off last year. I've been taking my nutraphyl vitamins now for, I think about a year. And you guys, my hair. So long, and I truly think it's the thickest it's ever been. And it just goes to show that when you continually take something and you give it time to show results, then you really do see a difference.

And that's how I feel about nutrition. Have you guys have never taken a supplement for your hair before? I really highly recommend it. I I'm a full believer in the whole like healing your hair from the inside out kind of thing. Healthy hair growth takes time, and you really will experience thicker, stronger, faster growing hair in about three to six months.

When you take nutraphyl in a clinical study, 86% of women reported improved hair growth after six months and more than 1500 top doctors recommend Nutriful as an effective and high quality solution for healthier hair. They really are great for you. So you guys got to check this out. You can grow thicker, healthier hair and support YFT by going to nutriful.com and entering the promo code Y F T to save 20% off your first month subscription.

This is their best offer anywhere, and it's only available to us customers for a

Bryan: plus free shipping

Stew: on every order. Get 20% off@nutriful.com. Spelled N U

Bryan: T R

Stew: a F O l.com promo code

Bryan: Y

Stew: F T do it so that one's for neutral and what I really like about it. And in fact, your Beekman characters are going to be making a return to talk about snake oil.

Uh, you know, the age old problem of the snake oil salesperson, uh, goes way back in time. Stanley Clark, snake oil. They ended up seizing his snake oil and found out there was no snake oil in it turns out it came over. Uh, it's a, it's a significant piece of Asian-American history in that Chinese sea snake oil work.

It actually lessens the inflammation from arthritis. And this is what the railroad workers would put on their hands. Then some hard selling Americans wanted to get out there and make a dollar thought. Well, if a Chinese sea snake has oil in it, I bet a rattlesnake does too. So they got some Rattlers. And then once I start making a ton of this stuff, you've got Stanley Clark at the Chicago.

World's fair. Cutting, uh, you know, taking a Rappler out of a bag and plunging it into boiling water, slicing it open, pungent it into boiling water, scraping all the goo off of the top, making a linament right there and having somebody set in the crowd, it comes up like my hands don't work and then he rubs it on him.

It didn't even have snake oil in it that gives nutraceuticals that gives certain products a bad rap. It doesn't mean they don't work. So when it comes to those, when it comes to those. Like, Nutriful getting a host to use it over time. That's a big long-term commitment, but it works. And so like in this example, you actually had the host Brandy Cyrus using it for a long period of time.

Cut off her hair. And she talks about using it, right. We only advertise products and services we believe in and would use ourselves at Oxford road. Really puts us in a great position when we're talking about the host, like time and time again, like I, I wear the products. I use the product. Because they're good products because they do what we say that they do.

And when the hosts have that confidence to you can, you can hear it come through. And then when they're equipped with the absolute best, most clear scripts possible, then it also performs. But I think this is a great example of a product that's a little bit more difficult because it takes time. And the host was able to give it the time and we were able to be with them and advertise with them long enough to have that payoff to go like, yeah, this stuff works.

Bryan: Okay. And so that's the big thing. So this, this person received the product for months for free before she did the ad. Right. Is that accurate the

Stew: for free piece? I'm not exactly sure. Um, Yeah. Yeah. And even more

Bryan: so either receive it for free or she paid for it, but she used it for a substantial

Stew: amount of time.

Yeah. Initially they are going to get a free sample, but I, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that the continual use of it was something that she continued to use, get for free, like, well, we're, we're able to get initial samples and those kinds of things. Like I said, when it, when it works and it's something that they believe in, they'll continue to get it themselves.

But that's the

Bryan: thing this showed that this person put in time and investment before they talked about it, they use it. This isn't something that like I can receive, throw in my hair and talk about tomorrow, this no wired investment, this required commitment to use. That's really. I think that's really cool.

Also art. Did you say that you're going to do the Beekman equivalent for the story of the snake oil salesman? Yeah. That's the first time I heard that story. That's amazing.

Stew: Oh man, this is a great one. Yeah. I mean, I'll bring out the ad was just going to join the party and, and you know, the, the other guy come here.

Hey, come on over here. Hey. Hey Bryan. Yeah, I'm going to be in that video too. It's going to be great. I'm telling you all about it, man. It's going to be. Yeah, I'll have everybody over. We're going to learn things about advertising history. Thank you guys. You can go back in the box now. Yeah, well, we're going to do, uh, we're going to, well, I'm going to get the whole band back together and we'll do a video.

Snake oil and, you know, some important legislation that came into place where it's like, oh yeah. Uh, now we have to disclose facts about our ingredients, which was something that they weren't doing. Um, until they had to, um, and that's where, you know, you can see advertising can really make a positive impact, uh, in the world.

Um, you know, where you can, you can go, okay, this is, this is stuff that we, we can actually make a change, which is part of what we're doing at Oxford road with the media round table. But that's like a whole other conversation we can have. I had one more. Okay, so this is a, well, this is a fun one, cause this is, uh, this is a Jessica Chaffin's character that she does.

So she, she does ironic Glickman where she answers questions as Ron Glickman. Um, which I just think is hilarious because she's doing the whole, she's taken on a character thing. Uh, but this one's remained crates. This one's from June 15. Bryan Ronna father's day is coming up and guess who's back as a sponsor on the podcast pad, may man crates and Ronna.

Why on earth would you give your dad? Another like world's greatest dad mug one of those dumb cards. That's like, what am I doing farting all day. I hate those. I have to be honest. Like it's all these father's day cards about farting. And it's so gross to me. I don't really know about that. If you trying to make me feel bad because Jordan doesn't have a father anymore, then you've succeeded, but that's not what this ad is about.

No, it certainly isn't. This ad is about getting your father a gift. He won't have to pretend to

Bryan: love. That

Stew: is so true. I have to say these man crates and you can test. Yes, I can. As a man who has received a crate, you can attest to this, these incredible and this so fun and thoughtful, and guess what else they are.

They're what people actually want. This is what exactly. They're so fun to open. You're literally. Making just sort of pounding your way through a crate to get something wonderful. I got to come to the Crow bar and you just get to go to town on this thing and then find something incredible. They've got an exotic jerky toolbox.

They've got a whiskey appreciation. Great. The one you had. Yeah. Personalize it, it comes with a decanter tumblers ice fear, mold, slate, coasters snacks. And also there are mill hundreds of these gifts. And, uh, so much gear flavors, activities that millions of dads love. Plus they're shipped in their own awesome container.

As we mentioned, the wood crates or an ammo can, or a gift card case in a concrete block. Yeah, they making unwrapping it makes unwrapping the gift itself actually fun. I have to say. Yeah. So now through father's day, June 20th, get 20% off. Site-wide when you spend a $149 or more@mancrates.com slash. Bryan B R Y a N Paddon man, I don't want to hear any complaints.

That's right. 20% off you spend $149 or more at man crates.com/Bryan man crates.com/radha, Bryan that's right. I mean, these people have solved your problem for you. It's done. Take the gift. Okay. It's done. It's done. Included that one with the, uh, Bryan promo. Therefore you went to correct. There we go. And so if you guys go to

Bryan: man crates.com and use the promo code, Bryan, I actually get credit for it too.

Stew: Exactly. Oh, that's they're like, wow. Your show is really performing. Yeah. Um, I love that at the end. She's like take the game. You know, they've made it easy for you. And, and again, you heard that, you know, they're doing the positioning thing, so, and it's not accidental that you hear a lot of that in our copy.

You know, it's one of nine key components.

Bryan: I liked that one because it felt that one felt like a skit, but not making fun of the product. It felt like it was making fun of everything that people get instead of that product. Right? Like, so there was a joke around. But the joke was that every other gift is goofy and that this gift bid sat goal.

So let's focus on, we already know it works. Let's make fun of the thing that doesn't work, that you keep defaulting into. And then let's remind you of that thing that works. And that was fun. That felt like content. Now the big question I have to ask you is how many times. Can you reuse that ad, right? The Zoc doc one, all these, the Headspace one, if I'm binge listening or I listened for a month and it's four episodes in a month after the second time, those are pretty long.

They're not bad. They're great. But like, I know it, it resonated, but is it as simple as just doing a fresh read with the same points or is it, do you rewrite it completely? And it's another story, like, what's your advice on that?

Stew: Yeah, absolutely. It's a, it's a fantastic question. And one that we get a lot, you know what one thing is the, you might be surprised at the number of times that an individual hears the same ad.

It's, it's often not as many as those of us who are inside the bottle of the marketing world. Think, you know, so, so we are not. The audience, right? The audience is busy and distracted and they're not paying as much attention as we are. Nevertheless, it's not a reason not to answer your question. So the way that we approach it in having a very specific framework and whittling down to very key points with the hardest hitting shortest words possible sets up the host almost automatically to ad-lib more.

Okay, so they're already predisposed to ad-lib more. So, um, Ron is not going to give the exact same read again. Now on that one, for instance is for father's day. So that that's a kind of an exception. I, I understand your question on the other ones that aren't tied to a specific holiday. The thing that we like to do is once we've dialed in the core message, it's like, we call it, we call it internally the constitution and the constitution is not something that you want to fiddle with every day or change on a quarterly basis.

Like the key, core points like that is set, but possibly for all times, Like that is set until we are proven in some sort of testing environment or, you know, just in the marketplace of going like, oh wow, this isn't working. We really need to think about the engine. But as far as like changing the paint, changing out the tires, that's something that.

You know, when it comes to podcasts, you could look at, okay, let's change up the intros or change up the way in like once a month or maybe more realistically once a quarter, because there's going to be seasonality. There's going to be things going on. There's going to be a way to set them up, to come into it.

To get them to think about how they're going into it in a little bit of a different way. Yeah. But if you keep the core copy points really, really tight and you keep those really, you know, like I said, very succinct, so it's brief and it's potent and it's clever. Then they're going to be able to add live and bring their magic to it each time.

Because they've got the space to be able to do their thing, and they're a different person every day. So they're going to ad lib differently. So, so the answer to the question is keep your core, like your body copy really, really consistent. Your offer is, you know, you PR when you're especially testing new into the channel, you want it to be the best that it could possibly be.

It's great to have a fantastic offer. You can't always have an offer, but so you've got the call to action. You've got the body copy. Keep that really core when it comes to your intro. It's probably, I think a bit aggressive to be changing that out, you know, monthly maybe if you had a huge volume that you're buying, you'd want to do that, but otherwise like on a quarterly basis, if you're kind of setting them up with two to three different intros and talking to them and like communicating with them, their people, their producers, or people, like what is new and interesting about this?

What new product did Quip come out with? Oh, the mouthwash. Well, let me talk about. They do the entire routine. You know, I mean, that ad is also fantastic because you know, here you have part of the problem, you know, on that show, they're talking about the new thing, but then they're talking about all of the other things.

So short answer would be once a month to once a quarter, I would look at changing out an intro based on like seasonality or something new with the advertiser. That's all.

Bryan: Well, Stewthis was awesome. I think this is the first time that we've had live examples when we walked through. And I'm just really thankful for your time.

I think you, you gave us so much, you gave basically everybody, a reading list. Um, I'm digging my way through those books. I'm going to ask you for more, at some point, uh, yeah. I just think it's great. And if you are working on creative, if you have questions about, uh, ad creatively view, we want your brand or your podcasts to sound better, reach out to Stewdirectly, reach out to Oxford road.

And thank you so much for being on the show. I hope to have you back.

Stew: You're welcome, Bryan, thanks for having me on

Bryan: and stick around for some special bonus content. At the end of the episode, I've teamed up with Evo Terra to give you a minute long strategic thought that is guaranteed to shift your perspective on the present and future of podcast. As we all work to make podcasting better. Thanks to Stewfor coming on to talk about his article, how to write podcast ads.

What's that sound

you liked what you heard and want to connect. You can find me Bryan Barletta on LinkedIn, way less formerly on Twitter as high five RPG. And of course you can email me@Bryanatsoundsprofitable.com spelled either way. The most important part about Sounds Profitable is providing you with more resources and making sure that I can answer your questions.

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